In this special episode of The Campaign Podcast – produced in partnership with Amazon Ads UK – Campaign tech editor, Lucy Shelley, is joined by Annabel Dewar, head of Twitch Brand Partnership Studio in Europe, to tackle some big myths head-on. One: that Twitch is just for gamers. Two: that audiences can be defined by the year they were born.
With nearly half of the world’s population classed as a gamer and more than 19,000 new games launched on Steam last year, the scale of the industry is enormous, says Dewar. But so is the Twitch experience – from DJs mixing live to LEGO builds, theme park simulators to cooking streams. “It’s very uncurated. It’s live, it’s authentic… There are people that are birdwatching… there are people that are making art.”
It sounds like a great place for brands to be, and many are testing the waters with traditional ads on Twitch (a great place to start). But why do some brands still hesitate when it comes to diving into live branded content?
Dewar puts it down to the novelty of the format: “The standard piece of sponsored content we would produce is two hours long. If you said to a creative director, ‘You also need to produce a two-hour deliverable,’ they would just blanch.” But that’s exactly why her team exists. “We are there to take your brief and say: this is how this could live in two hours of live content.”
Pot Noodle is one brand which saw long-lasting impact with a two-hour piece of sponsored content. Twitch creators took part in “The Slurp & Conquer Quest” – a game featuring a custom decibel meter which measured their slurping sounds. There was also a bespoke emote (that’s an emoji for the uninitiated), and real-time interaction from viewers. “Eloise [soupforeloise on Twitch], one of the streamers we worked with, said her chat loves the emote so much, they’re still using it a year later,” Dewar says. The results? It became the number one traffic driver to the Pot Noodle Amazon store, with Twitch viewers spending 60% more time on product pages than from any other source.
And if you’re still thinking Twitch is just for Gen Z? Think again. Dewar’s own mother – a 68-year-old Skyrim player – is a perfect example. “There’s no reason one brand can’t speak to both of us,” she says. Amazon Ads’ report, “Beyond the Generational Divide: The new rules for consumer connection” backs this up: 4 in 5 consumers say their mindset defines them more than their age.
For the full story on how Twitch is helping brands create, not chase, culture – listen now
TRANSCRIPT
Lucy: Hello and welcome to this special edition of the Campaign podcast in partnership with Amazon Ads, where today we are exploring how brands are becoming active participants in cultural creation rather than just cultural commentators. So in this episode, we will cover the evolution of Twitch beyond gaming, its role as a creative canvas for brand expression and why authentic collaboration isn't just a buzzword anymore, it's a business imperative.
I'm Lucy Shelley, tech editor at Campaign, and I am joined in the studio by Annabel Dewar, head of Twitch's Brand Partnership Studio in Europe. Hello Annabel.
Annabel: Hi Lucy. Thanks for having me.
Lucy: Great to have you here. I think, when, but just before we started recording, Annabel was saying "Sorry about my voice" 'cause you've just come from TwitchCon, haven't you?
Annabel: I have, yeah. And I feel it's, probably improved over the course of the week, but…
Lucy: If we did this a couple of days ago…
Annabel: …[it would have been] still slightly husky.
Lucy: …yeah. How was it? Was it fun? Did you enjoy it?
Annabel: It was really fun. It was the first time we had, I would say, over a hundred clients coming to TwitchCon in Europe.
And you have this real crystallisation moment when you go there. Where you just feel like: “I get it. I understand what this collection of people go to Twitch for, why people love it.” So it feels like a real "Wow" [moment]. Everyone's [saying] "I see what it's all about." Yeah. I get why people evangelise it…
Lucy: Yeah.
Annabel: …so it was really fun,
Lucy: Especially with something so virtual, I think, seeing people in real life must have such a great feeling for you.
Annabel: Yeah, a hundred percent. And there is a really… the atmosphere feels really nice. You have the sense of people that are used to connecting online or maybe have never seen each other in the real world.
So a good example is: a lot of streamers have moderators and so they're people who partner with them and go through their Twitch chat and police that keep it a safe space, rather keep it free of hate speech, for example.
And they had this celebration and the opening keynote of an "Ode To The Mods" and these streamers invited their mods on stage and there was this really...I was next to clients who were wide-eyed and in awe of it because there is this the sense that people who are fundamentally a really important part of your life, are part of making a collaborative environment for you online, like actually working for you, in effect, who they're meeting for the first time and celebrating. So yeah. Yeah. That's like a micro example, but it was…
Lucy: Yeah.
Annabel: …it was very cool.
Lucy: Oh, I'm glad. We've spoken about what's happened recently. Let's take it all the way back to the very beginning of Annabel Dewar. you work at Twitch now, but were you a gamer growing up? Was i, something you're passionate about at all?
Annabel: I definitely played games growing up. I had two older brothers and so there was a lot of what I would describe as war-based, not to be overly gendered, but war-based strategy games [like] "Command and Conquer" on PC. But yeah, I would, I did play games. I still do game on console, but increasingly less hours a week.
Lucy: Yes. Yeah. And what's interesting is we're seeing those gender barriers within games actually massively change, aren't they? I think when I think of my childhood, it was war games and then Sims, which I still love.
Annabel: Rollercoaster Tycoon. Yeah. Which I love the idea of building a theme park as a 9-year-old.
Lucy: So with that in mind, how has that transitioned into your current role at Twitch? Is that an important part of understanding what's going on?
Annabel: Yeah, I think that gaming is enormous, right? I think we hit a number of… I was presenting recently on trends and gaming… and I think there was something like 19,000 new games were released last year on Steam. Steam is like an, admittedly a lower barrier to entry than releasing a game on console.
So you do get this explosion of different types of games. There are cozy games, there are action games, there're first-person shooter games and there are huge sort of institutions like Grand Theft Auto. So I think that gaming broadly is diversifying and attracting more people. It's an enormous entertainment industry. I've completely forgotten the original question that you asked me though!
Lucy: No, it's a brilliant answer. I was interested to know how your previous roles and your experience, but also, your experience within gaming, has prepared you for your work at Twitch, and you know if there are any skills that might have been surprisingly valuable for you or...?
Annabel: For sure. So before Twitch, I worked at a creative agency, so an integrated agency, so Media Arts Lab who was like Apple's creative agency…
Lucy: Yeah
Annabel: …part of TBWA. And a lot of the focus there was around integrated creative ideation. very much media-first thinking. So, trying to break away from traditional which is very, difficult for marketers to do and agencies to do, but thinking outside of traditional formats and really trying to make content that is fit for format.
So not putting 30-second films on social and that sort of the best practices that we think of. And I think that's incredibly useful in my current role at Twitch, mostly because the type of content, the type of branded content and formats that we're producing is so novel. The standard piece of sponsored content we would produce is two hours long, which marketers are like, "That's wild".
Lucy: The media people would be freaking out.
Annabel: Everything you learn about social: it's short, you have to catch people's attention in 0.3 seconds, you have to stop their thumb. And I think it's kinda the opposite of that, but it really did. Having that groundwork of a very, good creative agency. Working with very good comms strategists gives you the ability to think of formats first and think of the way that ideas, interrogate ideas that are able to flex for format, so it was very useful.
Lucy: So you've obviously mentioned that one of the, great benefits of Twitch is that it is a great place for long-form content, maybe to the chagrin of the media marketers…
Annabel: Yeah.
Lucy: …but, why do you think viewers are so willing to spend so much time, watching livestreams on Twitch for hours but brands still might hesitate to lean into this long-form storytelling? Why does this disconnect exist?
Annabel: Absolutely. Yeah, that's a really good question.
To answer the first point about viewers, I think that it's the idea of community and community building, so there fundamentally is a real sense of connectivity. There is this very, what I would describe as like a mini-to-mini conversation where these communities are tuning in and they're talking to each other and the streamer. And so I think that sense of belonging, that sense of connection that I don't fundamentally believe exists on a lot of traditional social platforms is the reason the audiences stay there. For brands, I think it's daunting because it's two hours of live content, right? If you said to a creative director, "You also need to produce a two hour deliverable," they would just blanch and think "That's insane." But that's okay because that's why the streamers are there and that's why the brand partnership studio exists. We are there to take your brief and say this is how this could live in two hours of live content.
And so I think that, if there's anyone that has a campaign idea or a thought or is curious even just to see "I'm launching a product or we have this new messaging out, how would you do it on Twitch?" We are there to bridge that gap and we are there to suggest the streamers. So it doesn't need to feel as intimidating as I know it can sound like at the start.
Lucy: I think gaming itself as a industry has so many misconceptions. People think it's one thing or people think gamers are one thing, when really they're so much broader than that and it's just a ginormous industry. But I wondered if you had any misconceptions or there's any misconceptions that exist that since joining Twitch, you realised have been debunked and what would, do you think, marketers would be surprised to know, perhaps?
Annabel: Yeah, it's interesting that on the gaming point, I think half of the world, like 4 billion people or something game, so it's half the world's population. So it's a vast [number] and that varies, right? There's Candy Crush versus The Witcher [which] are very, different games…
Lucy: It's Wordle, if you play Wordle, you're gaming.
Annabel: …I hope Wordle doesn't count towards that number because everyone plays Wordle. I think the biggest misconception I had about Twitch was when you meet someone and you say, "I work for Twitch", the first thing they say is, "Oh, that's where people watch people game."
And I think if you take a cursory glance, you're like, "That's absolutely what it is." And gaming is the heritage of Twitch. It's still a vast proportion of the gaming live streaming globally lives on Twitch. But it's definitely not just that. I think the thing that is most interesting about Twitch is the format and the way that the behaviours of consumption operate.
The fact that it's live, the fact that it's long-form, the fact that it's interactive and that opens up innumerable possibilities for content types. So if I just take one pillar of music, DJs are increasingly streaming on Twitch. Musicians broadly, but DJs specifically, particularly in the last couple of years. And about three weeks ago, Fred Again, I hate saying that name with my accent. 'Cause it's Fred, I sound like I'm mispronouncing [it]. Fred Again, the UK DJ. He had his first Twitch broadcast and he went live in a very laid back, not heavily produced setting, which is best practice almost for us.
Just him and his team, he's streaming from...I think he's in Greece on holiday or something. And no fanfare, no promotion. You stumble upon it and you see all of Twitch chat who've just found one of their favourite DJs streaming is mind blown. Like this idea that you've just stumbled across effectively your favourite artist in their living room and they're talking to you...
Lucy: Yeah.
Annabel: ...he's mixing and saying, "Do you guys like sample A or sample B?" and Twitch chat's "Put C in" and...
Lucy: Right.
Annabel: ...he's like "Okay, we're playing C" and I just can't think of another space that you could do that. And the fact that we have this intimate setting, big names and a discourse or a conversation...that's what I think of when I think about Twitch. And I think whether it's gaming or music or sports, it's that behaviour that makes it unique.
Lucy: That's really interesting to kinda see how it's evolved and I guess transitioned, but I guess it also just follows the people that are on it, depending on what they want, that's what you can find...
Annabel: A hundred percent.
Lucy: ...on the platform.
Annabel: Yeah.
Lucy: You spoke about some of the fantastic things that can be achieved through Twitch: this kind of connection, this live aspect. But I wanted to ask what the other kind of magic ingredients of Twitch were, kinda what makes it different, from advertising propositions. Basically sell it to our audience.
Annabel: Pitch Twitch. God, no pressure. I think so first is the audience and the consumption behaviour. And so I think that our audience generally are spending a long time on the platform.
So the average streamer is live for between three to four hours, [that] is the average broadcast. And the way that the audience is engaging. So the sort of leaned-in consumption behaviour, the fact that they are typing in Twitch chat and talking to the broadcast. The streamers are the lifeblood or the heart and soul of Twitch, no content would exist without them. And the way that they're building communities, the way that they're streaming, like a huge variety of content. That's what I would say is unusual. It's very un-curated. Yeah. It's live, it's authentic. And there's any manner of person on there. There are people that are doing livestreams from zoos. There are people that are birdwatching, there are people that are building Lego. There are people that are making art. There are people that are cooking, there are people that are producing music. It's almost as representative as of a diverse society.
So the streamers is the second point. The fact that it's all live, which is crazy. The fact that 90% of our viewership globally is live. It's this real tune-in culture of coming there for that moment, not watching like a VOD or a playback. And then it's long-form, which I said before, but as you said, like the thought to a marketer of two hours of content feels crazy, but it's the norm.
Lucy: Yeah. We've spoken about how it's an exciting place for users to be, but I don't understand exactly how brands can get involved. So let's talk about that and debunk the myth for the media people and the marketers listening, how, do you have any advice for brands that are looking to create something really creative on Twitch?
Annabel: For sure. Yeah. So the brand partnership studio exists to try and solve that problem, it's our sort of our reason for being. So we are a bridge between, I guess advertisers or brands and this audience and streamers. And so our role is, we're a full service creative studio. We have producers, creative strategists, an activation team that also manages talent.
And so we can do that whole exercise of helping a brand, get live and produce branded content. For some brands that means end-to-end. Like they come to you and they say, "We've got a campaign, we wanna speak to your audience, but how do we go about it?" And so we will be sourcing and recommending talent, we will be creating an idea for how...
Lucy: And by talent you mean?
Annabel:...talent - Twitch streamers.
Lucy: Yes.
Annabel: Yeah, exactly. So everything is live and hosted and lives on that, on their channels, generally when we're talking about branded content. And so it's like a partner, a collaborator to work with them. And we'll be, I guess, coming up with a campaign idea, how could that, whatever your existing message or product or even full deliverable campaign, how would we bring that to life to this audience and a two-hour sponsored broadcast. So we're doing that mental math that can feel daunting. For some brands, I would say there's a greater literacy in the space, particularly a lot of endemic gaming brands are very familiar with Twitch. They might even have existing talent partnerships.
And so in those cases we might be suggesting just little elements, like we could build a shopping extension that maybe sits as an overlay for people to interact with the product pages, or we might be suggesting some sort of gamification or interactive element. But yeah, we are able to do it all.
My advice for brands trying to do it well is interactivity. There are so few spaces I think that you can genuinely create branded content that's interactive or that people want to interact with maybe is a better way of saying it.
Lucy: Yeah.
Annabel: I always say this, but a decade ago people would say "interactivity in advertising" and it would be an interstitial banner that would move as you scrolled [but] we are talking about genuine interactivity. Because you have such a long-form space to play with, because you have an audience that is used to typing and clicking and because you're in a space that is has the vernacular of gaming around it, that's the perfect place to really make something that people will engage with and be primed to play and trying to think like that, which can sound abstract but...
Lucy: Yeah.
Annabel:...we are here to help if anyone wants us to try and show what that means in practice.
Lucy: You've got so much form to play with, haven't you, as you explained just then. So it's [about] understanding that and then just thinking outside the box and how we can really engage...
Annabel: Yeah.
Lucy: ...with the way the community would like to be engaged with. You've talked about what the brand partnership studio does and how it can help brands, but does it service agencies in a slightly different way?
Annabel: We work with both.
Lucy: Yeah.
Annabel: And so it's very common for us to be have a brand brief from an agency and [it's]the agency who we're interfacing with. Again, I think that depending on the type of agency you might have, like PhD, for example, I know Tess was on your podcast...
Lucy: Yes.
Annabel:...love her. She articulated Twitch on that podcast so well. I was like, "This is the perfect way to state it."
Lucy: For our listeners, that was an episode [in which] we were talking about their British Heart Foundation work, which has done very well at awards and...
Annabel: Yeah, and it's such a good best practice use of Twitch. It was, it's awesome. And she's an amazing partner. Partners like that, like an agency like that has a very mature understanding of how you can show up in that space. Because they're dedicated to gaming, they understand the audience, they understand the behaviours, they understand the talent landscape.
And so again, for partners like that, it might be a matter of us helping them understand technically what's possible with tools, like a shopping extension or like a game model or something in-game that we're building. But I wouldn't say there's like a broad approach that differs to each.
Lucy: I mentioned the intro that you wanna talk about authenticity. I think, especially in today's climate where [we're] connecting with people in so many different ways now, authenticity and real life connections are so important. So I guess the question is, how can brands still be doing this in such an intentional but an organic way that feels for that brand as well?
Annabel: Trust the streamers.
The community is tuning in for that streamer. They want to watch that person. They are their community and so the streamer is the best place person to inform you how to talk to them 'cause they've built that community around them. And so they really understand what kind of messaging will land, what kind of brand ultimately will land and what kind of activation they might enjoy.
And so we work very closely with streamers to ideate and to understand what will and won't work [and] what will and won't their audience be receptive to. And then the second thing is think interactively, that invites the audience to do something because that's the unique nature of Twitch, right?
The fact that you have this very active, leaned-in audience that they are engaging in Twitch chat, that they are talking to the streamer. And if you can build branded content that lets chat either play or control the narrative of the stream, it's that for me is best in class. That's the goal.
Lucy: So you spoke about what to do, what about things that people should be avoiding?
Annabel: Again, it comes down to that streamer trust. So I think that there's a balance in the middle. Firstly, you cannot script live content.
And so when you have a really directive [brand/agency], you might get a product spec book that's 40 pages long and it's like "These are all the things we want them to say." And you think, "This is not..."
Lucy: Yeah.
Annabel: ..."this is not rehearsed." This needs to be in their own natural tone of voice and also it's uncomfortable for them. Streamers want authentic brand partnerships. They want to be ambassadors for brands they believe in, and so I think that over scripting is like the most common mistake and the one that you need to avoid most. Equally then there's the other extreme end of the spectrum where I think brands are like, "Oh, just have fun with it," and like that's almost as bad because...
Lucy: Okay, that's interesting, yeah.
Annabel: ...yeah, because I think there's that thing of being like a little bit of information can be a bad thing 'cause they've heard, "Don't script", and then they go, "Okay then, let's let them decide." And I think you need to be somewhat directive because otherwise you're putting an enormous amount of pressure on a streamer to design two hours of content for your brand.
That's very laborious and intensive. I think be clear on the outcomes that you're after, be clear on the messaging. Be clear for us on why you strategically got there, and we'll help you bridge that gap of making a good brief. But yeah, don't try to get that middle line.
Lucy: Yeah. I guess there's a large gap that you can get it right in, but just please don't be at the end. The way you talk about it, the words "partnership" and "collaboration" are so important, to make that connection look real. By actually respecting each other, like you said, don't leave it all to the streamer, try and work together.
If we wanted to look at some of the successful brand partnerships that you've seen on Twitch, do they share any common elements? I know you've mentioned a couple, but in campaigns that kinda genuinely really resonated with audiences, why do you think they've done this?
Annabel: Yeah, I mean I think you can tell when there's a good brief that you're excited about. It's like choosing favourite children when you talk about campaigns 'cause you're like, "I like them all."
Lucy: You must like some more than others.
Annabel: Yeah, I so do. I've used a micro example of this idea of infiltrating in culture and having a lasting impact.
So we did a campaign for Pot Noodle last year. Firstly, it's a large brand, so there's a real resonance of the audience, there's a brand recognition, and so what we developed was this concept called the "Slurp and Conquer" quest, which is around the noise that you make when you are eating noodle...the slurping noise, which, I can make it, but I don't wanna...
Lucy: No, please, go on.
Annabel: ...*slurp* That was good, right? I've had to do that in a lot of meetings. I've perfected the slurp, my ASMR girl. So yeah, the "The Slurp and Conquer" quest. And the idea was like a decibel meter, so the streamers had to slurp to see if they could hit this decibel meter. And we developed this small emote, so an emote is what we call an emoji on Twitch.
So you have channel specific emotes that signal that you're part of a certain community and they're very commonly used in Twitch chat. So we developed this slurp emote, we invited chat to spam it in order to make the streamer slurp for longer. And I was talking to Eloise, who was one of the streamers that we worked with on that campaign, and she said that her chat loves the emote so much they kept on using the slurp emote a year later. And that's just a dream for a brand.
Lucy: Yeah.
Annabel: Can you imagine the organic usage of a piece of brand content that you've developed being so beloved? Again, that's around interactivity. It's around understanding what might be fun. The idea is to try and make playable stuff and be a bit open, I would say.
And the other thing that is exceptional about that campaign, which I think dispels myths, not just about Twitch but generally about ambassadorship and influence advertising, is the lower funnel element of it. So the number one traffic driver to the Pot Noodle store was the Twitch content.
And so people that were coming from Twitch spent 60% more time on a product page than from any other source. And I think that you think of influence marketing broadly as not really doing a lower funnel conversion piece. And I certainly would never broadly position it like that but when you have this magic combination of authentic partnership, great streamers who really represent and are evangelists for the brand and interactive content, you can actually have this...
Lucy: Yeah.
Annabel: ...ability to actually move the needle in lower funnel, which is cool.
Lucy: You do, and I think that example there also really demonstrates the ability from, we talk about this a lot, especially on social media as well, from following culture to creating it...
Annabel: Yeah.
Lucy: ...which is exactly what brands would love to be doing...
Annabel: Yeah.
Lucy: ...but it's very easy to not do well.
Annabel: Yeah, completely.
Lucy: So, you know, I think that is a great example of that. But let's talk about Amazon Ads' "Beyond Generation" study with Crowd DNA 'cause it challenges the whole idea of targeting by age group, I understand. It suggests that shared values and behaviours are much of a much a stronger way to connect. So how does this kind of work on Twitch?
Annabel: It's very interesting on Twitch because we are...like all of those microcosms of communities that I just talked about, you probably wouldn't find very many...for example, everyone that plays with Lego is not who you might think they are, or indeed everyone who plays games.
There's been such an emphasis forever on really rigid demographic targeting. We are no single person that you meet. If you say, "Tell me something about yourself," you're like, "I'm a woman in my thirties." That gives you no...there's no information there.
And every single time you meet someone, you connect with them, you relate to 'em or you like them, it's usually because you have some kind of shared passion or interest or hobby.
It feels obvious but now we have the data that actually validates it. And you do see that behaviour showing up on Twitch.
I was speaking to my colleague the other day around this idea of who's watching certain content and I think the question came up from a client. And so my mother is a really good example of this, hilariously. She's a 68-year-old woman and she plays Skyrim, which is an action-adventure, open-world game.
And I guarantee you that Bethesda, who makes Skyrim, are not going: "We need to target 68-year-old women." And so I do think that understanding the way that people are engaging with different types of content formats, the way that they're following certain streamers or participating in certain communities is a much better indicator of what kind of content will resonate with them than a pure like age or gender demographic.
Lucy: Yeah. You go to so many events run by media owners, agencies, whoever it is, about how to connect with Gen Z...
Annabel: Yeah, that is
Lucy: ...and I dunno how helpful that is, because you're saying that these generation of people have no similarities with anyone else when you've just quite clearly explained that lovers of Skyrim can be Gen Z and under 25, but also over 65.
Annabel: I know, exactly. Of course [there are] patterns in the behaviour of young people, things that are incredibly popular: Minecraft is incredibly popular, Fortnite is still incredibly popular, but it's about those behaviours. It's not, that you're gonna be getting people that are, and I do think that's okay. I don't think any one is building a product spec. You have a demographic, but if people love the product regardless, because you're talking to people that have a passion for a specific type of content...
Lucy: Yeah.
Annabel:...then what's the difference?
Lucy: Let's look ahead. We've talked about how you know, brands can successfully move from following to creating culture on Twitch and how to do it very creatively. But how do you see the role of brands evolving on Twitch and what's exciting you most about it?
Annabel: So the thing that's most exciting is brands leaning in to gamification and gamified content. I think for sure we're not gonna see influencer ambassadorship go anywhere. I think that it's becoming such a standard pillar of most media planning now will have an influencer pillar and I like the idea of that broadening out a little bit and not just considering it as adjacent to a traditional above-the-line media plan, but rather integral to maybe delivering a campaign message.
The gamification piece is something that I think means a lot to me. It's very close to my heart because some of the work that we make that is so successful is so unusual 'cause of the format. And like when I say gamification, I don't mean just some in-game, like a lot of people do branded Fortnite content for example, or branded Roblox content, which is very successful.
But you don't have to borrow from another world to do that. You can actually, you can build mini games. We did a campaign for WhatsApp, I think it was in 2023. It borrowed from the Space Invaders aesthetic, if you remember that. It's like an arcade game...
Lucy: Yeah.
Annabel:..from the nineties. It was on PC as well. And it was like the neon spaceship and you would just shoot at it to attack it. "Privacy Protectors" was what it was called. And people were invading the stream - we pretended to hack the stream and chat had to use WhatsApp's privacy features to defeat the enemy.
And it's so fun 'cause you're playing an arcade game with a branded message. I think maybe 10 years ago people [would have said]: "Why? No one's gonna play a branded game." But if you do it right and you do it in the right place and you do it with actual game design thinking and you make it so it's actually fun and you borrow the right aesthetics, it can be unbelievably successful.
And so I think that the more briefs I see like that, the happier it makes me. And the more we talk to creative teams who have this really open-world thinking who are not thinking in terms of a 60-second TV commercial.
Lucy: Yes.
Annabel: And a 15 second pre-roll ad, but actually coming with an idea that just could have the flex to go into that kind of format, that's what I'm really excited about.
Lucy: And I think, as people start investing so much more, we are hearing from Unilever and some of the biggest agencies as well that are really doubling down on influencers and creators. So I think as it gets more competitive, people are just gonna start trying to do bolder and more creative things. So I guess it's, an exciting place to be, isn't it?
Annabel: Yeah, it's a good time to be in my job. Yeah, for sure.
Lucy: You've nailed it. So that's all we've got time for, unfortunately, but I'm sure we could talk about this all day. So it is been great to obviously bust some misconceptions and some common Twitch myths that we spoke about earlier and also really, quantify what makes a great brand activation on Twitch with some good examples for our listeners to take away.
So thank you so much for joining me.
Annabel: Thank you for having me, Lucy.